Recently Diagnosed & New Members

[alan_s Honored Contributor]

Ron, once again you have decided to turn a new person's topic into an argument. In Hi, I'm a 61yr old retired man/ cardiac patient and I've just been diagnosed with T2 after several responses from yourself, James, Talvie, and others you decided to warn the new person after I wrote:

Possibly the best advice I can offer to start with is to try to forget absolutely everything you have ever been told about "healthy eating", or worse "heart-healthy eating".

Start again by learning from your meter.

Your following response was:

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ronaka wrote:

I would suggest you listen to your doctor and other credible sources of information. If you have had a heart condition now is not the time to start fooling around with fad and snake oil theories about diets and what constitutes a heart healthy diet.

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Recently you have turned every single new arrival's introduction topic into a war of words that can only confuse that new person. Many of those new people disappeared after that. I have used restraint in those topics to try not to inflame the situation, but as of tomorrow I will cease being restrained. Fair warning.

We know that several regulars have left because of the constant bickering on every topic you appear on. You have now managed to chase off one of the most respected regulars on the forum.

You will NOT succeed in chasing me off.

If you feel such a desperate need to warn every new person of the dangers of the "snake oils and fads" advice they will receive here, please let us do it here and now in this topic.

I will await your detailed criticisms, supported by logical argument or supportive relevant cites, of the dangers to heart health from following Test, Review, Adjust or Getting Started or any of the other usual advice here including Lizzy's blogs or any other writer on this forum.

I will respond in kind. Hopefully others may join the discussion. Let us try to keep the debate reasoned and civil, but keep it here and away from the "newly diagnosed" introductions. If you must get involved in those, a response such as your first in that thread is fine (despite my lack of agreement with that advice), but the pointed and argumentative reference to "snake oils and fads" was not.

[maplesyrup]

Good for you Alan, On the Type 2 board I started two threads aimed at keeping two other threads from being hijacked.  They were titled Coping with Carbohydrates...  and  Glycemic Index.

I hope that they have saved a little of this tiresome, out of place squabling that happens when we, who have been doing our best to present a fair choice to newly diagnosed person, are "baited" so that we must respond.

I'll say no more for now but I hope that Ron responds to this thread and considers what we have been trying to tell him.

Dianne

[ronaka]

Alan, I have no interest in bantering with you. My purpose of participating in this forum is to help fellow diabetics by giving out credible information and links.

[alan_s Honored Contributor]

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ronaka wrote:

Alan, I have no interest in bantering with you. My purpose of participating in this forum is to help fellow diabetics by giving out credible information and links.

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I am disappointed with that response, but totally unsurprised at the lack of intestinal fortitude. Is that your final answer to:

I will await your detailed criticisms, supported by logical argument or supportive relevant cites, of the dangers to heart health from following Test, Review, Adjust or Getting Started or any of the other usual advice here including Lizzy's blogs or any other writer on this forum.

I do hope not. I hoped you had more courage than that. So, you are accepting that you cannot provide logical argument or supportive relevant cites of the dangers to heart health from the"fads and snake oils" you claim are recommended here.

If you continue to deliberately undermine the help to newly diagnosed people expect a very spirited response. I will presume that the moderator's allowance of your negative posts in those topics is also allowance of appropriate responses.

[ADAMateo Community Manager]

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alan_s wrote:

If you continue to deliberately undermine the help to newly diagnosed people expect a very spirited response. I will presume that the moderator's allowance of your negative posts in those topics is also allowance of appropriate responses.

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It most certainly is not. In fact, I was not made aware of the initial post in question until you and another member alerted me to this thread. Why does this continue to happen? The proper recourse, when you feel someone has said or acted in appropriately, is to report it to me. Alan, if you had followed proper protocol in reporting the other post to me, I would have responded and taken care of it.

I'm taking the middle ground here once again.

Ron, I'm in strong agreement with Alan about the numerous threads in our Recently Diagnosed boards where you have posted a thinly-veiled insult to someone and then retreated. Your continued attempts at undercutting people and the advice they give like the one you made in that thread have become tiresome and are creating an overwhelming and unattractive environment for new people in our Recently Diagnosed boards.

I will not have this continue on the forums I moderate. Be warned.

Alan, I will also not tolerate the kind of "tit for tat" attitude you are saying that you will take on. Starting this separate thread to talk about the merits of a statement with Ron is appropriate. Including statements that challenge not only him but, essentially, me in what you threaten to do in response is not. As a long-time contributor to our boards, I always expect you to take the high road in conflicts. This involves patience, respect, refraining from insult and instigation/perpetuation of conflict, and, most importantly here, reporting inappropriate posts through the proper channels so that I can intervene.

Cheers,

[ronaka]

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ADAMateo wrote:

Ron, I'm in strong agreement with Alan about the numerous threads in our Recently Diagnosed boards where you have posted a thinly-veiled insult to someone and then retreated. Your continued attempts at undercutting people and the advice they give like the one you made in that thread have become tiresome and are creating an overwhelming and unattractive environment for new people in our Recently Diagnosed boards. I will not have this continue on the forums I moderate. Be warned. 

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Matt, I would suggest you read the thread that is subject of Alan's post.

Thread

I found the advice that Alan posted was rather disturbing.

"Possibly the best advice I can offer to start with is to try to forget absolutely everything you have ever been told about "healthy eating", or worse "heart-healthy eating"."

This strikes me as advice to disregard what the poster's doctor and other professionals has told them. If you have any issue with the advice I gave in this thread, please PM me and let me know what the concern is.

[lizzylou Diabetes Brain Trust]

I would suggest you listen to your doctor and other credible sources of information. If you have had a heart condition now is not the time to start fooling around with fad and snake oil theories about diets and what constitutes a heart healthy diet.

I'll tell you exactly why it keeps happening.  AKA consistently refers to the low-carb diet that most of us advocate as "fad" and "snake oil"  as he did in the above statement.  He knows as sure as you're born that it will solicit a response from others. 

And this activity is exactly and precisely what I was referring to when I was called down for inciting conflict.  This is exactly what I was referring to!

Don't take my word for it, because apparently my word doesn't count for much.  Just plug "fad diet" into the search engine and see who's name pops up the most.

This is just one instance of his methods, there are many more.   

Lizzy (not quite gone)

[carlking2]

Ron,

I am not going to moderate for Matt....but this is your quote and the part I bolded is where it crossed the line...(IMO)

"I would suggest you listen to your doctor and other credible sources of information. If you have had a heart condition now is not the time to start fooling around with fad and snake oil theories about diets and what constitutes a heart healthy diet."

Ron you have a lot to bring to the table regarding your point of view regarding disease management, but you do not serve your cause by lashing out with these types of statements.  Alan was not lashing out at you in that post.  He truly deeply believes that everyone needs to:

 "Possibly the best advice I can offer to start with is to try to forget absolutely everything you have ever been told about "healthy eating", or worse "heart-healthy eating". 

Taking issue with what he said is one thing, but calling it fad and snake oil is not helpful.



[me_inGB]

I have been a reader here for several years.  Both Alan and Lizzy had devoted time and effort into helping newbies and have always been kind, civil and approachable.  Both have a LOT more technical medical knowledge than I do yet have been patient and helpful.  Neither has EVER told me what I should do - other than that I can take ownership of my diabetes and find out what works for me.  Alan's comment about "forgetting what you were taught about diet ... and going to your meter for solid information" has been repeated over and over here - to everyone's benefit.  Likewise with Lizzy's links.

Ron is not helpful - he is confrontational.  If I was coming here as a newbie it would just confuse and frighten me more. 

My 2 cents worth - Me in Green Bay

[ffmaya]

The problem is not so much what Ronaka says but how he says it and that he attacks people that voice their opposition.  There are many opinions out there and there seems to be no issues with those posters.

It's his aggressiveness and derogatory comments and his hits and runs. 

Matt is right about not sniping back (we are adults), but we are also human and, as such, can only take so much before we can't stop ourselves, reading the posts all day every day does that.  All Ronaka has to do is be more courteous and less pushy and peace would be established.