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Advisor
ronaka
Total Posts: 950
Registered on: ‎12-24-2011

Re: List of do/don't eat foods


xenablue wrote:
how do you explain that one person can eat a specific quantity of a certain rice and it spikes them through the roof, yet another person is able to tolerate that same rice on a regular basis.  The same is also true for bread, potato, fruits and a bunch of other foods.

The reason is that one person has diabetes worse than the other person, or they do not treat it as effectively as the other person. Yes, for sure we have diabetes in very different degrees ranging from being just over the detection limit for prediabetes to full blown diabetes.

 

What the GI is telling you is the relative potential of the food to impact your BG. How much one specific food impacts you will depend on your diabetes. How much one food impacts your BG compared to another food is the GI.

 

Ron

Not a doctor, only another T2 diabetic with, unfortunately 11 year experience. Be cautious about accepting advice, including mine, on medical conditions from the internet. It can be a good place to get ideas, but validate them with your doctor and other medical professionals first.
Advisor
ronaka
Total Posts: 950
Registered on: ‎12-24-2011

Re: List of do/don't eat foods


grannyred wrote:

Ron....you have been on this forum long enough now to please add......"In my own opinion" to your posts.

I agree with Lizzy and Xena.......we are all individuals !!!!

See ya..........................................Big Red....................................Peace

 


Sorry, this one is not in my opinion. It is in the opinion of many experts and the likes of the Canadian Diabetes Association. If you want to decide they are all wrong, and ignore the information you can continue to do that, but you are missing out on one of the significant keys to eating carbs as a diabetic. No need to do individual testing. It has all been done.

Ron

Not a doctor, only another T2 diabetic with, unfortunately 11 year experience. Be cautious about accepting advice, including mine, on medical conditions from the internet. It can be a good place to get ideas, but validate them with your doctor and other medical professionals first.
Advisor
ronaka
Total Posts: 950
Registered on: ‎12-24-2011

Re: List of do/don't eat foods

To Rick and Bill, I'm afraid you are not understanding GI. Neither is Lizzy. This site is the only place I've run into this myth that GI is an individual thing and everyone needs to do their own testing. It is like saying there is no point in using the EPA estimates of fuel mileage in cars, because drivers are all individuals and they will all drive their car differently. Is everyone going to get the same mileage? No. Is a honking big 4X4 with a V8 going to get the same gas mileage as a Honda Civic? No of course not. The GI is used to compare foods to pick out poor ones compared to good ones. It is not used to predict the peak BG in individuals.

Ron

Not a doctor, only another T2 diabetic with, unfortunately 11 year experience. Be cautious about accepting advice, including mine, on medical conditions from the internet. It can be a good place to get ideas, but validate them with your doctor and other medical professionals first.
Advisor
ronaka
Total Posts: 950
Registered on: ‎12-24-2011

Re: List of do/don't eat foods


CollegeLady1 wrote:

So, for example, I can tolerate oatmeal (high carb) for breakfast every day without spiking while Lizzy can't however she can tolerate an unfrosted donut (high carb) anytime and I can't.  It's just the unique way the carb is processed by the individual's body that determines if one can tolerate that level of carbs.  The GI provides a guideline to help us determine whether a carb is high, low, or mid range but not necessarily how each of us will process the carb. Do I still have it right?


 

No, that actually is not correct. GI is about the food. It is not about how you compare to some other person. It is a measure of how fast the carbs in the food digest and show up as BG. It tends not to vary from person to person. Also remember that the response is based on the area under the curve of BG vs time. That is not just the peak BG.

 

Ron

Not a doctor, only another T2 diabetic with, unfortunately 11 year experience. Be cautious about accepting advice, including mine, on medical conditions from the internet. It can be a good place to get ideas, but validate them with your doctor and other medical professionals first.
Responder
judybg
Total Posts: 47
Registered on: ‎11-08-2009

Re: List of do/don't eat foods

I found GI listings unhelpful because they don't take into account what I am eating with what.  And for some people corn is a problem.  For me it's great.  Oatmeal, alas, isn't.  The meter is my best way to keep track.

Super Advisor
carlking2
Total Posts: 2,725
Registered on: ‎04-08-2011

Re: List of do/don't eat foods

OK Ron maybe a real world example for you....The reason GI does not work is the adjustment of the portion size in the tests for 50 carbohydrates.  In my case I love popcorn....It has a GI of 72 (high), so if I went by that alone then I would preclude it would be a food I could not have.  Not true....I can't certainly have it in the portions that were used in the testing, but I can limit the size of the portion and work it into my diet.  I base this not on just my judgment, but rather my testing around the food.  As I said before, and at this point I don't think you get it....The amount of popcorn any diabetic can eat is going to depend upon several factors...Their individual level of insulin production, insulin resistance, medications, and any other foods eaten in conjunction with it.

 

Even the CDE RN who taught my D class told everyone in the class that the GI index had fallen into disfavor as a primary tool for managing diabetes and was no longer recommended.

 

Lastly please...You clearly indicated that what Lizzy said in her previous post was in error...

 

Lizzylou said:  "The same thing applies to the GI Index, it comes down to what is your GI index, not the people (non-diabetic) who were tested with those foods, ten people total."

 

Ronaka said:  "That is incorrect information about the glycemic index. It is a test of the carbohydrates, not the people."

 

Where is her information inaccurate?  I gave you a quote directly from the people who do GI testing and it is consistent with what Lizzy said in her post.  Please clear up your statement or provide links.  You can not begin to expect that the people here will just accept what you say....you must be willing to back up what you say and prove your point.

Thanks Rick

Diagnosed T2 4/4/2011
04/04/2011, A1c 11.2
06/27/2011, A1c 5.6
10/07/2011, A1c 5.7
1/14/2012, A1c 5.4
4/17/2012, A1c 5.4
7/27/2012, A1c 5.3
01/30/2013, A1c 5.2
08/26/2013, A1c 5.3
01/26/2014, A1c 5.5
07/25/2014, A1c 5.4

Lipids TC 203, LDL 110, VLDL 20, Triglycerides 100, HDL 73
Managed by diet and exercise along....former insulin and Metformin user
mollythed
Total Posts: 6,100
Topics: 76
High Fives: 1,144
Solutions: 120
Registered on: ‎10-31-2009

Re: List of do/don't eat foods


CollegeLady1 wrote:

So, basically what y'all are saying is the GI good as a guideline only for identifying foods that are high, mid or low carb range but how those carbs work is unique to the person.

 

Did I get it right?

 

So, for example, I can tolerate oatmeal (high carb) for breakfast every day without spiking while Lizzy can't however she can tolerate an unfrosted donut (high carb) anytime and I can't.  It's just the unique way the carb is processed by the individual's body that determines if one can tolerate that level of carbs.  The GI provides a guideline to help us determine whether a carb is high, low, or mid range but not necessarily how each of us will process the carb.

 

Do I still have it right?

 

(Hope you don't mind me using you in the example Lizzy!)


That sound pretty close to me. 

 

Here's what the American Diabetes Association has to say about the glycemic index:


From http://www.diabetes.org/food-and-fitness/food/planning-meals/glycemic-index-and-diabetes.html:

There is no one diet or meal plan that works for everyone with diabetes. The important thing is to follow a meal plan that is tailored to personal preferences and lifestyle and helps achieve goals for blood glucose, cholesterol and triglycerides levels, blood pressure, and weight management.

Research shows that both the amount and the type of carbohydrate in food affect blood glucose levels. Studies also show that the total amount of carbohydrate in food, in general, is a stronger predictor of blood glucose response than the GI.

 

Based on the research, for most people with diabetes, the first tool for managing blood glucose is some type of carbohydrate counting. Balancing total carbohydrate intake with physical activity and diabetes pills or insulin is key to managing blood glucose levels.

 

Because the type of carbohydrate does have an affect on blood glucose, using the GI may be helpful in "fine-tuning" blood glucose management. In other words, combined with carbohydrate counting, it may provide an additional benefit for achieving blood glucose goals for individuals who can and want to put extra effort into monitoring their food choices.



Frankly, I don't want to put in the extra effort to work with another set of numbers.  Counting carbs is quite enough to suit me.  On the other hand, I don't ignore the whole idea that some foods affect my body more quickly than others.  Fat and fiber will certainly slow down the rise in blood glucose.  Lots of other things, like ripeness, cooking and processing methods, other foods eaten at the same time, and, of course, serving size will also make a difference. 

 

I do keep those sorts of factors in mind, but they are only a very small part of the picture.  Chocolate, for instance, may have a lower glycemic index that oatmeal, but my old fashioned oatmeal with Splenda, peanut butter and half and half is still a lot more nutritious.


"Molly" (aka mollythed)
Type 2 diabetes diagnosed in 1995, now managed with Lantus, Humalog and Metformin; diet and exercise.
My husband and three adult sons also have type 2 diabetes.





Trusted Contributor
morrisolder
Total Posts: 10,722
Registered on: ‎11-28-2009

Re: List of do/don't eat foods


lizzylou wrote:

BTW, how does one measure two pinches (thumb and forefinger only) of raw sugar for the food diary in order to list the carbs, calories, fat and protien?

 

I'd say get the count for half a teaspoon and use that.  If it's a little lower no harm, better than being higher.  I don't think sugar (raw or otherwise) has fat or protein, calories use the 1/2 teaspoon count.

 

Lizzy


Alternately take two pinches and drop them into a teaspoon or tablespoon and see how full that spoon gets... To be precise, drop that amount into measuring spoons...

Morris

Diagnosed Type 2, with an A1c of 11.4 in 2003; averaging a 5.0 A1c since then with diet, exercise and Glipizide XL + meds for blood pressure and cholesterol. 
A bit dated, but scroll down on this page if you want to know more ...


Trusted Contributor
morrisolder
Total Posts: 10,722
Registered on: ‎11-28-2009

Re: List of do/don't eat foods

[ Edited ]

judybg wrote:

I found GI listings unhelpful because they don't take into account what I am eating with what.  And for some people corn is a problem.  For me it's great.  Oatmeal, alas, isn't.  The meter is my best way to keep track.


That is the crux of it, Ron.  Judy does fine with corn, not so good with oatmeal.  If it was just the GI that was the difference, then everyone would have a similar experience. But others report the opposite--they do fine with oatmeal, not so with corn.

 

Either we have to invalidate all of the individual variations that people report, many of them contradictory, or we have to say that the GI is a great concept but not the final determinant for ech person. And since it is an average of how 10 people respond compared to sugar, it does make sense that there is variation. Otherwise they could have tested with just one person...

 

Nobody is denying that it is  a useful concept--we just don't see it as the be-all and end-all...

Morris

Diagnosed Type 2, with an A1c of 11.4 in 2003; averaging a 5.0 A1c since then with diet, exercise and Glipizide XL + meds for blood pressure and cholesterol. 
A bit dated, but scroll down on this page if you want to know more ...


Super Advisor
carlking2
Total Posts: 2,725
Registered on: ‎04-08-2011

Re: List of do/don't eat foods

Yes Morris,

 

You have to understand that Ron points out that:

 

"This site is the only place I've run into this myth that GI is an individual thing and everyone needs to do their own testing."

 

Of course I do have to point out that Joslins has this weird idea..........

 

"The glycemic index is a fairly complex meal planning tool, and the fact that people's blood glucose can react differently to so-called "low" and "high" glycemic index foods has limited the usefulness of the index in teaching patients with diabetes how to manage their food intake to keep their blood glucose under control. However, the glycemic index may be be used as an additional tool together with a patient's current meal planning system. Registered dietitians often encourage patients to determine their own individual glycemic index of foods based on how their blood glucose responds to the various meals and snacks they tend to eat."

 

I really don't want to throw the who GI concept out...I truly believe that controlling the insulin response is key to control of Blood Sugar.  It might be a good starting point, but testing around the foods your eat....gives me better information.

 

In any event....this dispells the "myth" of the "myth"....I also belong to one other list that recommends the same general type of testing that we do around here.

 

 

Thanks Rick

Diagnosed T2 4/4/2011
04/04/2011, A1c 11.2
06/27/2011, A1c 5.6
10/07/2011, A1c 5.7
1/14/2012, A1c 5.4
4/17/2012, A1c 5.4
7/27/2012, A1c 5.3
01/30/2013, A1c 5.2
08/26/2013, A1c 5.3
01/26/2014, A1c 5.5
07/25/2014, A1c 5.4

Lipids TC 203, LDL 110, VLDL 20, Triglycerides 100, HDL 73
Managed by diet and exercise along....former insulin and Metformin user